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Reader’s Question – Should I invest in dividend stock if I don’t make much money?

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Reader's Question: Should I invest in dividend stock if I don't make much money?Hey Everyone,

Today we have a question from Grace. She doesn’t make much money and she prefers conservative investments. Should she invest in dividend stock? I gave it my best shot, but I’m sure she would appreciate your opinion as well. Let us know what you think.

(BTW, I’m on vacation in Cancun and I will be back next week.)

Grace’s Questions

I’m a single parent and I bring home about $1800/month from my pharmacy tech job.  I own a home outright in Hawaii and I rent it out with the help of a property manager since I currently live in WI. All the earnings that I get from that house goes into a savings account that I never touch unless I need to pay for property taxes, etc. There’s $19k in that account.

I’ve managed to save $43k in a totally different account of which I never touch because it’s my emergency fund for a year.  You should know that I was able to save that much because I was receiving spousal support until recently.  I’m currently applying for a better paying pharmacy tech job so that I will be able to support my children without having to touch the $43K unless it’s absolutely necessary.

I have annuities of which I think I understand, all I know is that it’s safe.  But now I’m wondering if I should look into investing into dividend stocks.  I’m not a wealthy person and not book smart and don’t want to be stupid and naive with my money.  Do you have advice for me?  Dumb it down if need be.  Mahalo.

Joe’s Answers

I think it’s a good idea to start investing in the stock market. The easiest way to start is to can set aside a small amount every month and invest. For example, if you can comfortably set aside $100 every month, then set up an automatic investment program and just keep doing it.

*My tutorial on How to Start Investing in Dividend Stocks.
The stock market will go up and down, but if you invest consistently, you should come out ahead in the long run (10+ years.) If you think you’ll need the money in 3-5 years, don’t invest it. The stock market is better for a long term investment.

Vanguard is probably your best choice for a brokerage. I believe you can invest without having to pay a transaction fee. Give them a call when you have a chance. They are a trustworthy firm.
As for what to invest in, one of these might work.

  • VIG – Dividend appreciation ETF. This fund invests in stocks that have good record of increasing their dividend. The dividend should increase every year.
  • VOO – S&P 500 index ETF. This fund invests in the S&P 500, that’s 500 of the largest companies in the US. This fund is good because it is diversified.

Lastly, the stock market is high right now and there is a good chance it will go down. You may lose money in the short term, but you need to keep investing consistently. Just keep buying and you will come out ahead. It took me a long time to learn this very important lesson.

*Grace indicated that she does not have a Roth IRA. This would be a good place to start investing because the withdrawal is somewhat flexible. She can take out the contribution without any penalty. The Roth IRA will also enable her to take the Saver’s Credit tax benefit. She can receive up to 50% tax credit back from her retirement contributions, $2,000 max per person. The amount of credit depends on your income.

Current Savings

I think you’ve got the right idea on your current savings. The $43k can be your emergency fund. Once you’re more comfortable financially, then you might think about investing it. For now, it is better to be more conservative.
Annuities – I don’t know enough about annuities to give good advice on this one. I would not buy more if I were you. Term life insurance is cheaper and simpler to understand.
*More detail from Grace – The annuities are from ****** Life Insurance. The statements are titled Fixed Index Annuity (annual).  After reading some of your blog, I’m realizing that my returns are a joke.  The larger account with $96k is only a 1.5% return and the smaller account with $17k is a 3.25% return.
Hawaii home – It’s probably a good idea to keep the income for repair fund. Later on, maybe you can invest the rental income when you’re more familiar with the stock market.
I hope you get the new job. Good luck!

Okay, what do you think? Do you have any advice for Grace? Is there any option for the annuities? The returns are so low.

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{ 43 comments… add one }
  • Ernie Zelinski November 9, 2017, 1:06 am

    That’s a tough question to answer. Not only may the stock market have a substantial downturn, the returns won’t be that great if it doesn’t. Of course, the time to invest in dividend stocks is just after the downturn occurs. Regarding annuities, I know nothing about them and that is the reason I stay away from them. I have to commend Grace for having saved as much money as she has on such a low income and not to have touched her savings. I believe in having “touchables” and “untouchables.” Too bad so many other people don’t know what this even means. For example, even though they earn about $120,000 a year, my sister and her husband in March wanted to borrow $10,000 from me to help them pay their income tax. Then in September, my nephew (my sister’s son) wanted to borrow $27,000 from me to pay off his credit cards. Some other time, I will provide more details for each case to show how totally irresponsible and bizarre they are with money. Needless to say, I turned them down since I would never have been paid back.

  • Lily @ The Frugal Gene November 9, 2017, 1:11 am

    Annuities come with higher fees. It’s not a good idea to combine insurance with investing. We received multiple invitations by mail to a free steak dinner if we listened to annuities sales pitch. If anyone needs to entice me with a steak dinner, I would walk away (this applies to romance too.) Vanguard never needed to sell me a steak dinner.

    ROTH is a great idea! The idea of tax sheltered anything gets me excited. This was great, easy to follow advice. Continue having fun on your trip Joe! Did you still have questions on bnb? I think I have questions back hahaha.

    • retirebyforty November 9, 2017, 5:12 pm

      Great rule about steak dinner.
      I’ll IM you about bnb next week. Thanks.

  • Pennypincher November 9, 2017, 2:22 am

    Yes- on the Stock Mkt. ( low-cost Vanguard funds).
    Yes- on calling Vanguard and getting a little (free, unbiased) advice on what to do.
    Yes- on starting & maxing out a Roth right away, and continuing to do it. At 70, you’ll be so glad you did!
    Yes-on the emergency fund.
    No- on letting money just sit and not grow for you.
    Emergency funds are best liquid, like in a low cost Vanguard Money Mkt. fund. This way when it gets too big, transfer excess $ somewhere else w/Vanguard.
    All savings/investments can be on “auto pilot”=withdrawn from your pay or accounts, into your savings/investments.
    No, no, no- on Annuities. This product is a) too expensive to own. b) too complicated for anyone to understand. c) benefits the middleman/salesman and ins. company w/your money!
    Stay away from salesmen!
    She has far too long a time horizon for money to just sit and not grow. Dollar cost average the IRA contributions, etc.
    Keep saving! Good job!
    Sorry Joe, I got carried away!

    • retirebyforty November 9, 2017, 5:14 pm

      I think keeping the saving in cash until she’s more comfortable with investing is a good option. You don’t want to rush in too quickly especially at this point. Once she knows how to invest, then she probably should average in a bit at a time.

      • Grace November 11, 2017, 8:12 am

        I now have a Roth IRA with Vanguard! Should I max out the roth before I invest $200/month in VIG or VOO?

        • retirebyforty November 12, 2017, 6:09 am

          The Roth IRA is like a brokerage account. You can pick an investment (VIG or VOO) and invest in those funds every month. I think $200/month is a great start. Vanguard has pretty good customer support. You can call them for clarification on how the Roth IRA works as well.

  • Ms99to1percent November 9, 2017, 2:41 am

    I agree with RB40 that the stock market is high right now and there is a good chance it will go down, that you may lose money in the short term, but if you keep investing consistently, and rebalancing, it should be okay.

    Also your age can help you how agressive or conservative you want to be.

    One other thing is that you are extremely underpaid at $1,800/month. Pharmacy tech is a well paying field and you can bring in 10x that @ $18,000+/month. We give plenty of advice on our blog on how to achieve that.

    • retirebyforty November 9, 2017, 5:14 pm

      I think she is working only part time. Maybe she can add more detail later.

  • Caroline November 9, 2017, 3:40 am

    The emergency fund and rental should be invested in a low risk fund with at least some return. Then set up automatic withdrawals and keep investing regularly. Dollar cost averaging is on your side, no matter what the stock market does (and assuming you are not close to retirement).

  • Revanche @ A Gai Shan Life November 9, 2017, 3:56 am

    Emergency money ($43k and rental $19k): build CD ladders to ensure that your cash is still earning a relatively decent interest rate even as you stay liquid. Ally usually has good rates and they’re easy to use.

    There was no mention of any tax advantaged retirement accounts, do you have access to a decent one with company match? If so, start funding that first, then the ROTH, then buy the recommended funds.

    If you can get out of the annuities without substantial penalties, I would do so – do the math on what it’ll cost you to get out because it may be worth any penalties. You should be able to get much better returns taking that money elsewhere.

    Vanguard is an excellent company with low fees so they’re a solid recommendation.

  • Wes November 9, 2017, 4:14 am

    Great advice here, esp. about annuities. Term is the cheaper way to go, in my experience.

    I can only add that Vanguard is a great low cost way to invest. It can also be a good place to house a portion of the emergency fund. I have mine split between my local credit union (for same day access, if needed) and a couple of Vanguard’s money market funds. (The yield is better than the money market yield at my local institution, and still fairly accessible)

    Good luck with the job change!

  • Roseanne November 9, 2017, 4:26 am

    Good Morning,
    I can only share my experience. When I was 16, I worked at Sears. When I left after I finished college, I had 47 shares. I reinvested in dividends and now own Morgan Stanley, Discover, Lands End, Sears Canada and one other that I can’t think of. While the Sears and Lands End aren’t worth much, the others were free to me from stock splits, etc. and are now worth over $40,000. Just from 47 shares of stock that I didn’t sell and reinvested the dividends. It’s never too late to start . . . ~smile~ Roseanne

  • Freedom40Plan November 9, 2017, 5:02 am

    What about a 401k? I didn’t see mention of whether or not this is an available option through your current employer. If it is, you should definitely consider making some contributions there, especially if your employer does any sort of matching contributions.

    Would generally agree with RB40 about the investing via Vanguard. I think other good options would be the Vanguard High Dividend Yield Index Fund – (VHDYX / VYM) or even the total stock market fund (VTSAX / VTI). As mentioned by others, the market is presumably high right now, so there may be a downturn. Of course there may not be. Either way, you’ll need to ride it out and be comfortable doing so.

    I didn’t see mention of your age or investing time horizon, but that should come into play too.

    For the savings, that is a nice emergency fund and keeping it in cash is probably a good idea. I’d make sure it is in an online savings account that is earning about 1%. I think Ally bank is currently offering 1.25%. This will not amount to a ton of interest, but it’ll be way better than some other mainstream brick and mortar banks where you might only get 0.05%.

    • Grace November 11, 2017, 9:03 am

      I like the idea transferring my 1-year emergency savings ($43K) from Wells Fargo to Ally Bank. The last time I checked my statement, I only earned 32 cents for the month so it seems like a no brainer to move it to Ally. But is there a catch? It’s important that I will be able to have access to the money in an emergency and without any penalties.

      • Jonathan November 11, 2017, 2:56 pm

        Synchrony Bank has a high yield savings currently paying 1.30%.

        I have had both Ally and Synchrony for a few years. Synchrony seems to consistently pay a slightly higher rate.

        • Jonathan November 11, 2017, 2:57 pm

          And no catch. You can withdraw anytime.

  • Ms. Frugal Asian Finance November 9, 2017, 5:07 am

    Whoo this is such an interesting series! I don’t know why, but as I was reading your answer, I was picturing you answering reader’s questions on your own podcast. How cool would that be? Hehe.

    I haven’t invested in the stock market yet, but this will be a great guide for me. Have fun in Cancun!!

  • Dads Dollars Debts November 9, 2017, 5:17 am

    I just want to say Kudos to her for having a investment property, an emergency fund, and now moving to save more money despite the lower salary. These are great and she is already kicking butt!

    Go slow and steady into the stock market. Start with a Roth IRA and see how that feels. From there move forward and grow your investments.

  • Mr. Freaky Frugal November 9, 2017, 5:21 am

    I’m not much of a real estate investing guy, so take what I say with a grain of salt.

    It seems to me that you have almost all your money tied up in the Hawaii home. Is there are reason? What happens if the Hawaiin housing market tanks? It might make sense to sell the home and invest the proceeds in a diversified portfolio of stocks, REITs, and bonds.

    • Dave in Sunny FL November 9, 2017, 8:08 am

      If the Hawaii housing market tanks, it will still be Hawaii, and people will still want to live there, and still rent her home. I got freaked out several years ago when a financial planner told me I was doing well, even though there was nothing but “paper” in the portfolio. Now, we have two multi-family properties. I can improve them to raise their value, purchase insurance to guard against unexpected loss, and utilize leverage to control a larger property then I could have purchased in cash. None of those options exists in the stock market: you pays your money and you takes your chances. Real estate also has the benefit of context. You can expect your property to remain in line with the neighborhood, so pick a good neighborhood. That doesn’t work with individual stocks. Amazon, Walmart and Sears are all three retailers, but your individual stock returns will vary greatly, depending on which one of those you owned! The importance of your individual research, including diligence on tracking management changes, business performance, marketing projections, etc., is so much greater with a single stock. We love Brk.b, and read the annual report each spring; but no other single stock has a prominent spot in our holdings.

      • Mr. Freaky Frugal November 9, 2017, 12:14 pm

        Dave – You have some good points and I know many people are very successful with real estate.

        I should have been more specific about the portfolio. I don’t own any individual stocks, bonds, or REITs. I mostly own Vanguard stock, bond, and REIT index funds. So that was what I was suggesting.

  • Jason@WinningPersonalFinance November 9, 2017, 5:33 am

    Good advice Joe. If somebody is trying to sell you an annuity, I’d be very cautious. They often make the salesperson a lot of money, not the investor. Setting up a ROTH seems to be an easy win. She can even pull out contributions without a penalty in an emergency. She’s done a nice job building up some savings. If she can set up recurring contributions to an investment fund, it will grow quickly. I’d prefer VTI or VOO to VIG. I don’t believe focusing only on stocks that increase dividends is necessarily the best way to grow capital. The two I mentioned will mirror the market return.

  • Lalani November 9, 2017, 5:35 am

    Hats off to you for saving so much while having such a low income and being a single mom of multiple children.
    You have immense self discipline and maturity to realize needs vs wants. You may not be book smart, but you must be very intelligent and clear headed.
    What is your goal of investing in dividend stocks? Is it to generate additional income? If so this is what i did with a 15k i did not want to invest in long term stock market. You can do the same with you 19k or 43k.
    I earned over $1200 this year on that 15k by opening checking and savings accts at banks where they give sign up bonuses. Some banks require you to keep a daily balance of certain amount, some want you to do 10 debit card purchases(i did less than $2)
    But all require setting up direct deposits for payroll. My company allow 2 different dirext deposits and my husband’s company allow 3. Between the two of us we earned $2500 in sign up bonuses.
    Its not a bad ROI for 15000-20000 a year. Granted the banks wont need our money for long, but for now they entice you to save it with them. Check out PNC, Chase, regions, TD, suntrust,etc. I opened and closed most of them online. Do read the fine print for how long to keep the money, and keep the accounts opened, and also how to avoid fees.
    And Joe, i love you blog, and have been a an avid reader for a couple of years. Agree with all your well thought suggestions for this amazing mom?

  • Tom @ Dividends Diversify November 9, 2017, 6:34 am

    Grace, Dividend stocks are a great avenue to build wealth and I think everyone with some available cash to invest should consider them. I agree with Joe’s advice regarding Vanguard ETF’s. They are a great option for most investors, especially someone new to dividend stocks. My favorite is the Vanguard High Dividend Yield ETF (VYM). It is a close cousin to the VIG ETF that Joe mentions. Invest an equal amount from your available cash each month (called dollar cost averaging) and reinvest all dividends. It is always a good time to start investing in dividend stocks, but realize the market is at all time highs and you may experience temporary losses as we go forward. Stay the course, keep investing each month and reinvesting dividends and you will be fine in the long run. Learn all you can about dividend stock investing. There are many great blogs that focus on this topic. As you get more comfortable, maybe you will be interested in buying individual company stocks that pay a dividend. They can be very rewarding. I very much enjoy this topic. Thanks for the post Joe and best wishes Grace!
    Tom

  • Kirk November 9, 2017, 7:43 am

    I love the size of her emergency fund. I’d recommend that she shop around for a very high-yielding online money market account. Pure Point Financial is highest right now at 1.30%

    http://www.purepoint.com

    As for investing in stock market at this juncture, it’s like buying a technology-focused mutual fund back in 1999. I would avoid…. UNLESS you dollar cost average a little each month on a consistent basis but even then, I believe you’ll be averaging in at lower and lower prices over the next 12-18 months.
    As for annuities, hold them but DO NOT buy anymore and do not add additional money. NOW is NOT the time to invest aggressively. Now is the essential time to be cash heavy and conservative.

    • Grace November 11, 2017, 9:50 am

      Pure Point Financial’s rate at 1.30% is tempting! Ally’s rate is 1.25% but the nice thing about it is that Ally doesn’t require a minimum balance (I think!). And since I only make $1800/month I can now focus on saving for retirement. Your thoughts?

  • Nick November 9, 2017, 8:28 am

    Should you invest in dividend stocks when you don’t make a lot? DEFINITELY!!

    For qualified dividends (stocks you’ve owned more than 60 days), you can actually pay ZERO taxes.

    The tax rate for qualified dividends is 0% if you’re in the 10% or 15% income tax bracket.

    At $1,800/month, you definitely fall into those lower brackets. That means all your dividend income would be tax-free as well.

    However, I wouldn’t recommend withdrawing those dividends. It’d be better to re-invest.

    The tax exemption is definitely something to think about.

  • Mr. Tako November 9, 2017, 8:39 am

    Nobody knows what the stock market will do, but over the very long term she’s bound to do OK investing in some of the biggest and best businesses in the USA.

    It doesn’t matter if you invest $1,000 or $100k a year, just be consistent year after year. It won’t generate a lot of dividends initially, but after a couple decades you’ll have plenty.

    I started by investing just a couple thousand a year, and now we generate over $50k in dividends per year.

  • Lazy Man and Money November 9, 2017, 8:46 am

    I’m not licensed to give personal financial advice, but I’m not sure if this qualifies because I’d need to know more about income/expenses before my opinion is meaningful.

    That said, I’d go with VTI over VOO unless there’s a strong reason not to… I can’t think of one. It has more diversification and the expense ratios of each have got to be very minimal. I have a significant investment in VTI myself.

    I’ve never been a fan of life insurance/annuities, but the ship might have sailed on that investment.

    I’d definitely look into tax-deferred retirement stuff like 401Ks and Roth IRAs.

    The question of investing in dividend stocks is probably misguided in my opinion. I believe that most beginning investors should invest in largely diversified ETFs (like VTI) and later on if they need the income sell and buy dividend stocks. People don’t need to invest continuously in dividends stocks to get the benefits of the income. The key is just to invest and get that money compounding .

  • jim November 9, 2017, 9:51 am

    “The statements are titled Fixed Index Annuity (annual). After reading some of your blog, I’m realizing that my returns are a joke.”

    A fixed index annuity is generally not a great investment. These are annuities that are indexed to the stock market and pretend to give you stock market based returns. However they are usually set up so that you can’t lose any money. So they are actually pretty safe and you don’t lose money but they’re sold to people wanting to join in on stock market returns but without the risk. And then they usually pile on lots of fees. The end result is the 1% returns.

    However, before you go and sell that annuity, make sure you read all the documentation on it and understand if you’re paying any early sale ‘surrender’ fees. Annuities often lock you into a multiple year investment and charge you fees if you sell early. If there are heavy fees to sell early then you are probably best to hold onto it until the fees expire.

    • Grace November 10, 2017, 5:25 am

      Hi, Jim. I checked my annuity contract and found out that I’m stuck with it for 9 more years until the surrender charge percentage will equal to 0%. I know I should stand back and look at the bigger picture but I surrender now, I’ll lose $12k. What should I do?

      • retirebyforty November 11, 2017, 6:50 am

        Wow, that’s a big penalty. I’d just stay with the annuity for now. It’d be very difficult to make back $12k from the stock market at this point.
        In 9 years, you’ll be a better investor and you can deploy the money better. Good luck!

  • EL November 9, 2017, 12:19 pm

    I think for having a low income she has done well with the savings on hand. I would say save 50% of the 46K into a mix of index funds, ETFs, and individual stocks. If you earn around 4-5% from them by dividends you will make around 900 – 1200 per year. That yearly income is almost equivalent to the monthly check of 1800, just for investing and watching it. Obviously you would reinvest the funds, and keep adding to them as Joe stated in down or up markets. Keep the other half in regular old savings for emergencies. Good Luck

  • Mr Groovy November 9, 2017, 4:23 pm

    Hey Mahalo. I agree with Joe. Open a Roth with Vanguard and invest $200 a month in VOO. If you can invest more, do so. Also, keep reading Joe and other personal finance bloggers. (Check out JL Collins. He has a great investing series.) After a year or so, you’ll feel a lot more comfortable about investing. Finally, you may not be book smart, but the fact that you want to be a good steward of your money and reached out to Joe for help proves your smarter than most Americans. Best of luck.

  • Mr.ATM November 10, 2017, 4:03 pm

    ETF route seems to be the best way to go around investing in dividend stocks, unless one has the willingness and aptitude to monitor and track individual stocks.

    I like DVY and VYM dividend ETF among the ones you already listed.

  • Brian @ Spark Rental November 12, 2017, 12:16 am

    I’m with you 100% Joe. Keep it simple, with low-cost index funds. Leave the money invested, even if – when – the stock market crashes again. While there’s a big opportunity cost in leaving $43,000 in cash, sometimes people need the comfort of a large cash cushion, and it sounds like that’s where Grace is right now. Best of luck Grace, and congrats on the rental property, right up my alley!

    • retirebyforty November 12, 2017, 6:18 am

      She’s a new investor and I think it’s better to go slow. If she invest $43k and see some losses, then she might be turn off for a long time. In this environment, it’s better to dollar cost average in.

  • David Michael November 12, 2017, 11:32 am

    This question could apply to any age with a smaller income than desired. At age 78, we had just completed 12 years of freedom, traveling and working around the world. It was a great adventure. However, having sold everything prior to our travels, we returned two years ago to a real estate market gone upwards beyond our expectations. So we moved into a cozy apartment and became a renter for the first time in many years. What we found is that we needed to make an extra $1000 a month to cover the rent without dipping into our savings or investments.

    We initially started buying dividend paying stocks on a monthly basis along with sinking $15,000 into Prosper, a marketplace lending platform that pays above average interest to investors. Here’s what we found:
    1) In the beginning we were getting great returns from Prosper, around 12% or so. Over several years the returns dwindled to 5% as we purchased safer loans with fewer defaults. Now, we are taking out all of the money month by month to invest it in dividend paying stocks. The primary reason we stopped investing in Prosper was the inability to withdraw
    cash on a moment’s notice. Otherwise, we are very happy with our experience in P2P investing. Every month now, we take out $500 and reinvest it in stocks.

    2) After a few stumbles, we found that we needed about a 10% return on a monthly basis. Believe it or not, we are able to accomplish this by investing primarily in high yield stocks in BDC (Business Development Companies) like MAIN and TSLX, and REITS (Real Estate Investment Trusts) like O, OHI, and NRZ. We started small with a $20,000 investment and now have $60,000 earning about $500 a month. In about two or three years we should reach our goal. Every month we invest $1000 often buying the same stocks as they drop in price peridically so that our average price gives us a better yield. Note that we only buy the better high yield stocks with a good safety record. Several pay monthly dividends.

    3) We do have a safety buffer of I Bonds in case of a major Depression or Inflation.

    4) And, an emergency fund of $5000-$10,000.

    5) Finally, I started working seasonally five years ago at age 75 for three months a year with nine months off. It keeps me mentally sharp, physically in shape, and brings in enough money to add to our investments. From Amazon to Costco at present.

    So, in summary, I used to make over $100,ooo a year 25 years ago when I retired. Stuff happens, retired or working. We lost about $500,000 when our annuity company went bankrupt. My advice…stay out of annuities. Otherwise, enjoy the blessings of every day, wealthy or not. Life is a great adventure!

  • GYM November 13, 2017, 10:08 am

    Instead of investing in dividend stocks, I would dollar cost average and buy index funds. It’s always scary to invest in a big lump sum because then you would be timing the market. I had about $100K to deploy and sat on it for a LONG time earning zero percent interest (inaction was action) and then I finally decided to dollar cost average about $1500-2500 a month.

  • Okiepennypincher November 14, 2017, 10:57 am

    I think Joe is right when he says to invest in a Vanguard account. Putting money in your roth is important. I, however, have always enjoyed investing in individual stocks. Obviously, you have to be careful and diversify. Here recently Omega Healthcare Investors stock dipped and might be a good buying opportunity. I own a little over 300 shares and I plan on buying more. Its dividend yield is a little over 9% right now. Something to think about. What are your thoughts Joe on this stock? Should she consider it?

    • retirebyforty November 14, 2017, 1:54 pm

      I like OHI, but I don’t think she should buy individual stock yet. She is a beginner and it’s best to stick with a good mutual fund or ETF until she is more comfortable with investing. Now, she just need to learn how to invest consistently every month.

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