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How Is Life One Year Into Retirement?

by retirebyforty on July 22, 2013 · 66 comments

in baby, early retirement, goals and milestones

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In 2010, I had a good job that provided a nice six figure income with benefits. Like most people, we had a mortgage, car payments, and several credit cards. We had three cats and a baby on the way. We had money to spend on nice clothes, travel, eating out, entertainment, and more. What the heck possessed me quit my stable computer engineering career of 16 years and put all that in jeopardy?

The Retire by 40 idea

Let’s do a quick recap here for our new readers. I got an MS in computer engineering and started working at a big tech company right out of college. I liked the job when I first started, but after 16 years it wasn’t a good fit for me anymore. I was one of those miserable people who dreaded walking into the office every morning. I knew I had to change jobs or quit my career and I decided to give Retire by 40 a shot. Actually, I’m not sure what sparked the idea. It was a great blog name and I felt I had to run with it.

After nearly 3 years of blogging, I now understand the idea of Retire by 40 more. It’s not just about quitting work completely and having fun while drawing down your nest egg. For me, it’s the transformation from working for a heartless corporation to doing my own thing. It’s about getting out of the rat race and finding my own path through life. Sure, that doesn’t fit the conventional definition of retirement, but it’s my site so if some people don’t like it, they can go start their own blog. :)

I started Retire by 40 in 2010 and I quit my engineering career in 2012. This might look a bit too easy, but we have been living a frugal lifestyle and investing ever since I started working. It didn’t just take 2 years from ideation to completion. It took me 16 years to Retire by 40.

So how is retirement?

Retirement is ridiculously busy. However, that’s a good thing if you are 40 years old. I wouldn’t want to play golf and lounge around the pool all day. That sounds very boring to me. I usually tell people that I’m a stay at home dad, but I have other things to keep me busy too.

  • Being a stay at home dad takes up most of my time.
  • Blogging – Writing and other blogging activities keeps me busy the rest of the time.
  • Other sites – I have a couple of sites that I run. They don’t take up a lot time because I have hired help.
  • Landlord – Our 4 plex is managed by a company so it doesn’t require much time. Our rental home needs attention from time to time.
  • Stock investor – I need to keep an eye on our investments to make sure we don’t run into too much trouble.
  • P2P lender - I need to find new borrowers to lend money to every week. I recently put it on auto pilot so this doesn’t take much time now. We’ll see how it impacts ROI in a few months.

Being a dad and blogger really takes up all of my time. I try to squeeze in other tasks when I can.

how's retirement after one year

Mrs. RB40 turned this monster into great zucchini bread and pancakes. Yummm!

Stay at home dad

Honestly, being a happy stay at home dad is getting more and more difficult as baby RB40 turns into RB40 kid. A year ago, I had to do a lot of mechanical chores like cooking, changing diapers, feeding him, putting him to bed, etc… These tasks were pretty easy for me. Now, RB40 kid is developing his personality and it is a lot more difficult. We still have a lot of fun together, but lately I have been losing my temper a little bit more. It’s hard to be patient because he is constantly pushing his boundaries all day. It starts as soon as he wakes up and doesn’t end until he crashes out at the end of the day. Yeap, that’s life with a 2 year old kid.

So we’re butting heads all day long and I’m getting tired of it. That’s why we just signed him up for preschool this coming school year. He will see how older kids behave and hopefully the teachers will rein him in a bit. We sure need their help!  It’s only 3 half days per week so we’ll still have a lot of time together. This will also give me a little time to work on the blog.

Overall, the last year has been really great. I love spending time with our kid and we have a special bond. He is really attached to me, but I think it’s time for him to expand his horizons a bit. The kid changes so quickly and I’m grateful for being able to spend this past year at home with him.

Blog

Retire By 40 is doing pretty well in general. I’m more comfortable with my writing and I feel like I have found my voice. I was a bit burned out earlier this year, but I’m much more energized now after a vacation and a great conference. I’m pretty happy with the way the blog is going and my goal this year is to keep writing useful and entertaining articles for you. Next year, I would like to get a forum going on this site so you can have more conversations with each other as well.

Let me know what you would like to see on Retire By 40.

Finance

Walking away from a stable paycheck wasn’t easy. Of course I was afraid we won’t be able to make ends meet, but our cash flow model looked good before I quit. This past year didn’t turn out exactly as expected though. Our rental income didn’t do as well as I hoped, but my online income more than made up for the short fall.

The one thing I did right was to have a long dry run. We lived without my paycheck for a year before I left my job. It gave us the confidence that we could do it. If you plan to leave your job for an uncertain future, then I really urge you to try living without your paycheck for an extended period first.

Any regrets?

Do I have any regrets? Nothing really serious. It would have been better if I quit 6 months later than I did so we could have saved a bit more. However, we are doing fine financially so I can’t complain. The last year has been the happiest year in my adult life. I feel free and I don’t have those throbbing headaches anymore.

Life is constantly changing though and we need to keep adapting. For now, I’m happy to report that I’ll continue to be a stay at home dad/blogger and won’t have to go back to work for a corporation in the foreseeable future.

Mrs. RB40

How does Mrs. RB40 feel about you staying at home and her working?

Mrs. RB40 actually quite likes this arrangement.  At first, her biggest concern was about financial stability and that without my income, we wouldn’t be able to cover all of our expenses.  But since we don’t spend much on extras anyway, it has worked out.   Both of us are a lot less stressed than when both of us were working.  Before, we had to get out of the house early to get to our destinations in opposite directions. At that time, the only thing we focused on was work.   Now, she can still pursue her professional interests and feel like she is being productive in a work environment, which she enjoys.  This doesn’t mean that she spends no time with our kid; she still spends a lot time with him every day and the weekends are especially reserved for their bonding time.

Let me know if you have any questions and I’ll be sure to answer them here. 

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{ 66 comments… read them below or add one }

Glen Craig July 22, 2013 at 4:26 am

Great to hear things are going well for you! And the kids do get interesting as they get older. But I think 2 is a fun age. You can really start to go around with them without carrying a ton of supplies. Before you know it the little guy will be in kindergarten so enjoy the time now.

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retirebyforty July 22, 2013 at 8:49 am

It’s a lot of fun going around the neighborhood with him. We never carried much supplies to begin. We are doing toilet training this week… It’s frustrating, but he’s getting better day by day.

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Taynia @ The Fiscal Flamingo July 22, 2013 at 4:51 am

I had to giggle at your comment about your two year old pushing his boundaries. When I started my year off, my vision of the time I would spend with my two-year old was butterflies and rainbows. Boy were my eyes pulled wide open very quickly. We also put her in preschool in hopes of learning from the older children. It was a great decision for the entire family. But mostly her – she loved. So happy we did it.

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retirebyforty July 22, 2013 at 8:50 am

It was so much easier when he just do what I tell him. These days it takes 5-6 “listen” before he pay attention. I’m ready for preschool too… :)

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Amanda L Grossman July 22, 2013 at 6:56 am

It sounds like you guys are doing well! It’s good that you voice your opinion about being a stay at home Dad–both the good and the ugly–and it’s obvious that you love your child very much (by the way, it helps that he’s so darn cute!).

Hope to see you at FINCON later this year:).

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retirebyforty July 22, 2013 at 8:51 am

It would be nice if he listen to me more. :)
I’m not going to Fincon this year. I’ll catch you next time.

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Simon Elstad July 22, 2013 at 7:13 am

First off, I like how you put it about retirment: “transformation from working for a heartless corporation to doing my own thing.” When you look at retirement that way…really starts to be fun! I think there are key lessons to learn from your one year of retirment; take the plunge and do what you like and what you have fun at, Plan and execute constantly, bring down expenses as much as you can and all in all, have fun at it.

Oh kids…they do grow up fast…enjoy the time together :)

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retirebyforty July 22, 2013 at 8:53 am

They do grow up fast. I keep waiting for things to get easier, but I guess they never do. :)

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davidmichael July 22, 2013 at 7:18 am

I love your story. It takes guts and vision to have the courage to quit a real steady job and take on a dream. I left college teaching after 16 years to form my dream company and lived my dream for 20 years. Finally, the stress and competition got to me and I sold it to start stage one of retirement. It was never easy, but now when I look back at age 76, I’m so glad I had the fortitude to make the decision and go out on my own.

I have to laugh at your stories of RB40 Junior. We are traveling this week with my daughter and her family, one of which is five years old acting like a two year old. With eleven grandkids I watch them go through a variety of stages, but it seems that the Terrible Twos can last until they go into Kindergarden. Thank God for the socialization process of the school system!

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retirebyforty July 22, 2013 at 8:54 am

I would love to hear more about your story. What company did you started?
OK, I like “RB40 Junior.” I think I’ll use that from now on. :)

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Kurt @ Money Counselor July 22, 2013 at 7:27 am

Sounds like Kid RB40 likes to go his own way–just like his old man!

That year-long ‘dry run’ was brilliant, you’ve done things the right way. I feel sure your quality and quantity of life will be much better thanks to the courageous changes you (and Ms. RB40!) have made. Thanks for setting an example for the rest of us.

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retirebyforty July 22, 2013 at 8:55 am

The dry run was great because we could see that it’s possible to live without my paycheck. It would have been much harder to leave otherwise. Thanks!

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Michelle July 22, 2013 at 7:33 am

I think you are doing great! I can’t wait until one day when I hopefully reach this point. However, as you said, I do keep thinking about whether I should wait a little longer and save more.

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retirebyforty July 22, 2013 at 8:55 am

It was always – one more year. At some point, I had to just pull the plug…

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Pretired Nick July 22, 2013 at 8:22 am

Just wanted to say thanks again for being such an inspiration for me and my family!
Although I’m older than you, your general approach and way of thinking so matched my own that it gave me a lot of confidence to leave corporate work behind.

For anyone wanting to learn more about Joe, he was gracious enough to answer my 10 Questions today:
http://pretired.org/10-questions-for/10-questions-for-retire-by-40/

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Pretired Nick July 22, 2013 at 8:24 am

Oh, and you didn’t say what happened to the three cats. Do you still have them?

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retirebyforty July 22, 2013 at 9:03 am

One passed away last year, but we still have two. They are pretty low maintenance.
I’m glad you could join me in pretirement. It’s a lot more fun than our previous life, isn’t it?

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Pretired Nick July 22, 2013 at 1:24 pm

I’m busier than I’ve ever been, but never happier!

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Corina July 22, 2013 at 8:51 am

Your kid is very cute! :-)
The highlight of the article was when you mentioned that “retirement” didn’t happen in 2 years but in 16 years, and that it’s not retirement but shifting your focus on what interests you. It’s very interesting what people consider ” retirement” – who really likes just watching TV and aimlessly walking around??? …this would make a good survey.

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retirebyforty July 22, 2013 at 9:41 pm

Thanks! It just depends on what you want to do. I guess people want to travel more and just relax, but I’d get bored after a while.

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No Waste July 22, 2013 at 8:57 am

For me you really crystallize the entire concept of early retirement when you say:

“…transformation from working for a heartless corporation to doing my own thing.”

Freedom is what’s all about. I feel bad for people who say they wouldn’t know what to do with themselves if they retired. Shame.

And I currently have one in the middle of the Twos…and that little one’s not so Terrible…but I’ve heard it’s the Threes you really have to watch out for!

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Anton Ivanov July 22, 2013 at 9:32 am

Great 1-year followup Joe! I’m glad that everything worked out so well for you and your family. You are an inspiration and a testament that early retirement is indeed possible.

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retirebyforty July 22, 2013 at 9:43 pm

Thanks! Everyone will have to make their own goal come true.

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Mr. Utopia July 22, 2013 at 11:11 am

Your story is quite inspirational, Joe. Some other commenters above have called out their favorite quotes from your post, but, to me, this sentence is key: “The last year has been the happiest year in my adult life.” Seriously, you can’t put a price on happiness and to have navigated your way to such a place – by taking some serious leaps of faith – is phenomenal.

Happy 1 year “retirement” anniversary!

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retirebyforty July 22, 2013 at 9:44 pm

Thanks! It’s such a big change from being miserable all the time. It feels like a huge weight has been lifted off my shoulder. Everyone should have a chance to be happy.

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Lisa E. @ Lisa Vs. The Loans July 22, 2013 at 12:54 pm

You are such an inspiration!

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retirebyforty July 22, 2013 at 9:44 pm

Thank you! and good luck to you too.

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Yarnie July 22, 2013 at 1:14 pm

I have a 3 year old, and let me tell you … year 3 is harder than year 2! I’ve learned that terrible twos doesn’t mean that they are terrible at age 2 — its literally 2 years of terribleness (and extreme cuteness too). I’ve been told that it gets easier by 4, but I’ll let you know next year if thats true or not :)

PS – I also have a 1 year old and can compare the level of ease…at least for me its easier with the 3 year old than the 1 year old who still can’t walk/talk/listen/understand.

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retirebyforty July 22, 2013 at 9:45 pm

Really? I think the 1 year old was so much easier for me. At least we weren’t fighting all the time. :)

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krantcents July 22, 2013 at 2:10 pm

You should use this time as an opportunity to investigate opportunities. What is your overall plan? Will you return to work after jr. starts school full time? Will trade your rental properties into a larger building?

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retirebyforty July 22, 2013 at 9:50 pm

That’s what I’m doing. I’m not going back to work after jr. starts school. I would like to start some kind of micro business. We’ll see.

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C. the Romanian July 23, 2013 at 6:12 am

Beautiful story! My son has just been born and I was worried that being self employed (as I am since 5 years ago) might not be the best idea since there’s no actual guarantee that I will be making any money 3 or 30 years from now. I am glad that I read your article that proved me that there’s no reason to worry. If we want to do it, we will do it!

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retirebyforty July 24, 2013 at 9:27 am

Congratulation! Resourceful people will get through anything. Good luck!

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Sam @ frugaling.org July 23, 2013 at 9:30 am

Congratulations on your success in early retirement! I think that’s a wonderful recommendation to test out or sense what an extended period of time without the traditional income.

This is incredibly inspiring! Keep it up.
-S.

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retirebyforty July 24, 2013 at 9:28 am

Thank you for the complement! The dry run really gave us some confidence and lowered Mrs. RB40′s blood pressure. :)

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Tortoise Banker July 23, 2013 at 2:01 pm

I’m so pleased year 1 has gone well for you. I’ve enjoyed following your story , and wish you and your family the best in years to come.

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retirebyforty July 24, 2013 at 9:29 am

Thanks for reading! Hopefully the 2nd year will go just as well.

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The First Million is the Hardest July 23, 2013 at 5:29 pm

Glad to hear your first year of “retirement” has gone well. Best of luck on year 2 and beyond!

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retirebyforty July 24, 2013 at 9:30 am

Thanks! I’m looking forward to the journey.

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KC July 23, 2013 at 6:03 pm

Joe, I can really identify with your experience being “retired” myself since the age of 39. By the time I reached 37, I was having a mid-career crisis and I knew it was just a matter of time before I quit the rat race. But the wife was a home-maker and having two young kids meant that we had to be doubly sure before I made my move.
Your advice of having a trial run not living on a paycheck is a good one that anyone contemplating early retirement should heed. Like you, I lived the year before I quit solely on passive income and socked my paychecks away. There were many moments of hesitation on my part before I finally “retired”.
The best words of wisdom I received when I left college was “invest early” and “don’t live an extravagant lifestyle”, and I would like to share them with your readers who might be considering to embark on the similar journey.
Keep well Joe, and keep blogging. Your experience inspires many people and I’m sure they resonate with a good number of us.

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retirebyforty July 24, 2013 at 9:32 am

Thanks for sharing your experience. Invest early and living a modest lifestyle was our motto too. It worked out really well and I’m passing that on to as many people as I can.
Are you doing any kind of work now? Just wondering.

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KC July 27, 2013 at 12:01 am

I’d think of myself as a full time dad, and part time landlord and investor. Our two single-family rentals don’t give us much problems. Our investments are rather passive too — dividend and index ETFs (SDY, SPY and IWM). I do a bit of equity/index options trading too but mainly to hedge against market weakness and generate premium, not for speculation.
As the kids grow older (they are now 6 and 11), I might do some part-time consulting or lecturing. I am also exploring some ideas for start-ups. For now I enjoy watching the kids grow up, teaching them and celebrating the milestones in their lives.

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retirebyforty July 27, 2013 at 3:06 pm

It’s really great that you could take the time to be with your kids. I love being around for my kid too. Seeing him just a few hours per day wasn’t good at all. I think we have a much stronger bond now that we have spent a lot of time together.

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Kim@Eyesonthedollar July 23, 2013 at 8:54 pm

Congrats on the first year! It’s been really exciting to follow your “retirement.” It’s nice to know it’s possible to not regret walking away from a steady paycheck to do something much more rewarding. I think preschool is a great idea, and it will make you much more patient after having a bit of a break.

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retirebyforty July 24, 2013 at 9:32 am

I’m looking forward to September. :)

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Catherine Jean Rose July 28, 2013 at 6:13 am

Hi there, just discovered your site and am reading up a bit on how you “retired by 40″. Excellent. I wonder what area you live in? Cost of living seems high. I’m guessing east coast? Also, have you shared with readers the amount you accrued to retire with, aka, “nest egg”? My husband and I are in our early 40′s with three kids and living in the midwest. We’ve got $620,000 saved (though $255,000 of that is in 401ks). We also own a high end rental property outright. Wondering what that golden number was for you to feel secure enough to walk away? I appreciate the fact you lived off your wife’s income for one year before taking this plunge. Like you, we live modestly, we own our cars outright. They were bought used and are old but reliable. Carry no credit card or student loan debt, shop at thrift stores or go without, and are content to live frugally. Basically, our primary mortgage which we put 40% down and took out a 15 year loan on, is our only debt. We do like to travel as a family. I spend $6000 – $8000 a year on vacations. Well worth it to me and something I’d not easily give up. We don’t want to retire outright, but my husband recently lost his job and I want him to be able to do whatever he wants to do and not worry about providing a high income for the family. I work full time – but get 10 weeks vacation per year – hence the desire to travel so often. I love my job and plan on staying at least ’til my kids are all through college. Thanks for any info/insights/opinions.

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retirebyforty July 29, 2013 at 8:10 am

Hi, we live in Portland OR. Our housing cost is a bit more expensive than I’d like. Eventually, we’ll probably move to a cheaper area once Mrs. RB40 leaves her job. We are putting of international travel until our kid is a bit older.
I’m not comfortable sharing the specific $ in our net worth right now. It’s higher than yours, but I think our monthly expenses is a bit higher as well.
Good luck to your family. I’m sure your husband will find something that he likes.

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FI Fighter July 28, 2013 at 9:24 am

Glad to see the first year going so well! I think we can always play the “what if” game, and speculate how much more we could have earned if we kept working just a tad longer…

I like your idea of trying out ‘life without the paycheck’ before fully committing to it. I’ll probably do the same when the time comes…

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Evan July 29, 2013 at 7:57 am

It’s hard to be patient because he is constantly pushing his boundaries all day. It starts as soon as he wakes up and doesn’t end until he crashes out at the end of the day. Yeap, that’s life with a 2 year old kid.

Describes my boy exactly lol. I don’t know if I could/would want to do the home the entire day like you took on. Are there part time positions you could take?

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retirebyforty July 29, 2013 at 8:30 am

Yeah, I think boys are all like that. We’ll try the part time preschool and see how it works out. Hopefully I’ll be able to increase our online income a bit once I have more time to work on it.

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Evan July 29, 2013 at 8:33 am

My boy starts part time preschool also come September.

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Buck Inspire July 29, 2013 at 5:53 pm

What a ride so far Joe! I loved your point about you needing 16 years to retire by 40. A lot of people are hypnotized by get rich quick and retire quick schemes. You worked hard, planned hard, and even went through a long test run before making the jump. Happy for you! Funny thing about Baby RB40 turning into a kid. Baby Buck is 15 months and he’s getting a little fussy and pushes boundaries, too. No more just feeding, napping, and changing diapers. Now I have to chase him and reel him in too!

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retirebyforty July 29, 2013 at 10:15 pm

It will get more difficult, but a lot more fun as well. I guess that’s life. :)
Thanks for dropping by!

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eric July 30, 2013 at 1:38 pm

I’m 43 and in a similar situation….MSEE with 19 years at a defense company but was laid off in the 3rd round of 10% layoffs last summer…that’s after 7 or 8 prior layoffs over the years! I warn kids to think twice before pursuing the career, especially if not in a high tech jobs area.

My wife has been fairly happy having me home to run our two kids to doctor appointments and get them on and off the bus (I always got them on the bus).

She only makes 40% of what we used to make, plus I get another 10% from unemployment, which will run out this summer. We are staying even on the 50% so far, which is around what we have always spent, but that’s w/o any major items such as replacing cars or having payments.

I have a gov’t job lined up which is 100 miles away and pays much less. I’ll make around $11/hr after taxes and the many expenses (I’ll rent an apartment near my job, as way too many engineers are doing these days). I plan/hope to transfer to their facility in our area as soon as a job opens up…or find a better paying job locally.

I’ve never heard of an accountant or lawyer going through the baloney so many of us have endured.

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retirebyforty July 30, 2013 at 3:42 pm

High tech is good for certain personalities. We also need to realize that our career might not last forever. It’s good to save up as much as we can and then jump into something more fulfilling.
Sorry to hear about the lay off. I quit and didn’t wait for the layoff. My sanity was worth more to me.
Good luck with the new job. Hopefully you’ll find a better job nearby.

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Defense_Worker July 30, 2013 at 3:59 pm

Yep, in engineering, I knew the odds of surviving layoffs past 50 years old was slim, which is partly why we saved a large percentage of our income.

My next job will be even more boring (after the initial learning curve), but ought to be stable. I’ve wanted to own a cottage since high school, but it’s hard to do so (and sleep at night) when there’s a layoff every 2 years! What good is a high income if you can’t count on it…it was great for saving, but I wasn’t comfortable spending anywhere near our “means”.

We also have two kids with moderate autism, so I want to save as much as I can for them…so not only do I need money for myself for retirement, I want to have money for them for the rest of their lives too.

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William July 31, 2013 at 11:46 pm

Great work Joe! It’s good to hear that you spent a year without the paycheck. Sometime life take us in a position where we doesn’t know what happen next especially if there is only one earning source. Life is constantly changing who know what happen next…just continue with you faith and it doesn’t mean what your life is?

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retirebyforty August 1, 2013 at 9:12 am

Thanks for the encouragement. Life is short so we all need to enjoy it.

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thepotatohead August 5, 2013 at 2:46 pm

The dry run was a smart approach, nice and slow to see if it would actually work out. I’m feeling the urge to get out of the cubicle too, but I def still have a long way to do for that to work. Glad you are doing so well!

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Jeremy P August 7, 2013 at 5:25 pm

I don’t have kids but I can see the benefit of what the time at home allows you. I’m about to turn 51 and would like to either work part time or switch careers since my current job is quite stressful. Fortunately, our only main expense is the mortgage which is quite low. We have a good amount of cash and stocks ($100k) saved and my wife works so I could probably take a good amount of time to discover a new career. I know the biggest and hardest decision is just to quit. Not having to live paycheck to paycheck also allows you to have more flexibility.

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retirebyforty August 7, 2013 at 10:31 pm

Good luck! Perhaps you can take a sabbatical to figure out what you’d like to try next. You should also do a dry run to see if you can live without your paycheck.

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Defense_Worker August 8, 2013 at 6:12 am

I you literally only have $100k total saved for retirement after 30 years of working and presumably saving, your bills can’t be very low compared to your income. Quitting your job (and I assume the new job would be lower paying) seems very risky to me unless your wife makes enough to pay the bills (but then why do you only have $100k?). $100k is spare change at 51.

If you and/or your wife have a good traditional pension, then you have a good shot once you reach 62 or whatever the age is your pension requires to retire w/o penalties/reductions (usually 5% per year less for every year you retire before age 60 or 62).

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retirebyforty August 8, 2013 at 9:33 am

I was assuming they have 100k in taxable account and more in retirement accounts. It’ll be nice to hear more detail.

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Defense_Worker August 8, 2013 at 11:48 am

I noticed that was likely how you read it, but he says cash AND stocks, so I’m not sure what he meant. Many people think $100k is a lot of money. One reason people don’t/can’t retire early is that that have no idea how much is required to survive 40 years of inflation and unknowns. He could eat up $50k before he knows it if he quits his job…much better to get the new job started first.

k8 October 15, 2013 at 9:46 am

Joe,
Your blog is great! I totally agree that it’s more about finding your own path through life if you’re going to “retire” extremely early. My spouse and I haven’t had any earned income in the last 8 yrs since we sold our business at ages 40 and 35. I don’t really consider myself retired, more like financially independent for now and looking for the next thing I want to do.

One question: Why peer-to-peer lending as an investment? I assume (and we all know that’s bad) that you were interested primarily on the return as an income source. Why not a BDC or some other high income investment? Maybe you could write a short article on it.

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retirebyforty October 15, 2013 at 11:30 pm

Thanks for dropping by. I’m just trying peer to peer lending to see if it works. I don’t know much about BDC, but it sounds risky to me. I will need to research it more.

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