Boy, am I glad I didn’t get that tattoo
One of our readers is going back to school for an engineering degree and asked me to write a detailed post on why I gave up my engineering career. It’s a great career that pays well and are in demand, but it might not be for everyone.
Studying Engineering
Computers fascinated me when I was young and I tried to learn more about them at every opportunity. So when I graduated high school, I decided to major in Electrical and Computer Engineering (ECE.) Studying engineering in college was pretty tough and many students couldn’t get through the freshman year. The difference in difficulty and expectations between high school and university was too high for many students. Once you got though that first year though, almost everyone I knew were able to complete their Bachelor’s degree. My alma mater offered a 5 year MS program. If you joined the program, you can take graduate level classes during your senior year. I did this and also received some credits for being a Teaching Assistant to a few classes. I was able to complete my MS in 5 years instead of the usual 6. I think this program was a great idea.
Job
I got a job with a great company right out of college – Intel. This was pretty much my dream job. I worked on the memory (DRAM) interface and learned a lot about how the computer chips were made. The first 7-8 years was great for me because I was very good at the technical side of the job. I got promoted every few years and was compensated relatively well. I worked many 50-60 hours weeks and it was tiring, but the job was still fun because I was learning many new things.
Senior level
After 10+ years the expectation changed quite a bit. The company expected different things from their senior engineers. At the lower level, it was enough to excel at your job, but the company expected their senior engineers to lead and work through others. Being good technically was no longer enough. I was a terrible leader and things just didn’t work out well when I tried to lead. I was too laid back and I didn’t like telling people what to do. The job was no longer a good fit for me and that’s probably the biggest reason why I left engineering. There were other factors as well.
More reasons why I quit engineering
- I got married and didn’t want to work long hours very often. Once we had a kid, I rarely worked late or on the weekend unless I really had to. This didn’t compare favorably with young’uns who seem to enjoy working until 10pm.
- More and more time was spent on technical writing, planning, presentations, meetings, classes, etc… I liked the technical side of engineering and I loved working in the lab. The other stuff weren’t important to me and consequently I didn’t put much effort into them.
- I lost interest in the job/career. I’m not sure why, but I’m not really interested in computers anymore. My $400 laptop works well and I, like most regular people, don’t really care about the next snazzy upgrade. The paycheck was the only thing that kept me going into the office.
- My area of expertise (DRAM) moved to a different site in another state, and we did not want to relocate just for this. I had to learn a new area and it was difficult. I loved debugging and playing with logic analyzers. Once that part of the job went away, it wasn’t much fun for me anymore. (I changed jobs a few times, but stayed with the same expertise until about 3 years ago.)
- My physical and mental health deteriorated due to the sedentary lifestyle and stress.
- Many of my close friends left the company or were laid off. My old boss was fired a few days before Christmas in 2009. That made him ineligible for the year-end bonus because you have to be on the payroll through December 31st. I thought that was pretty heartless. I knew it was only a matter of time then.
I don’t think there is any way to know if an engineering career is right for you unless you try it out. Most of my friends from college are still in the field, but a few changed careers and life goes on. Many engineers are happy with their jobs and enjoy their time at work. I didn’t like being an engineer anymore and the years of diligent saving and investing enabled me to become a stay at home dad. I will most likely rejoin the workforce someday with self employment, but it won’t have anything to do with engineering.
I hope this answer some questions for my readers with aspirations in engineering. A big company like Intel has a lot of BS to deal with. I probably should have left 5 years ago to join a small company instead, but the timing just wasn’t right. Anyway, let me know if I can answer any questions.
If you are a senior level engineer, do you still enjoy your job and will you continue to do it until full retirement age?
Everyone who is thinking about quitting your job should read Financial Samurai’s book: How to engineer your layoff.
{ 92 comments… read them below or add one }
I was a software engineer, now a manager. Surprisingly I still love my job, I have some friction with my boss but I am sure he’s won’t be staying back for long as we follow a strict rotation policy. So, you can say I am not looking for going alone at this moment.
That’s great. I know some people who still like their job after 25 years. It’s great to look forward to going to work.
That’s horrible! I’m sorry you went through so much with your job. One thing that struck me was that your job promoted you to your level of discomfort. You said you didn’t feel equipped and was stressed out. It is sad when companies lose valuable people because they don’t recognize what makes that person so special at their jobs to begin with. Not everything is transferable.
I think it’s tough to stay an individual contributor these days. It’s easy to find a young engineer to replace a senior person. The CPU is getting more and more complicated and the budget couldn’t keep up. That’s why they always try to get rid of highly paid senior people who are individual contributors.
That sounds like a pretty tumultuous situation, however, it sounds more like a problem with a company and less of a problem with the career. I’m sure you made the right choice for you, though.
Intel is one of the better company in the industry from what I understand. It was time for me to move on anyway.
Okay, this isn’t totally related, but I’ve been wanting to ask this question ever since I first came across your blog a few months ago. I’m very curious why you couch your quitting in the phrase of “retirement” rather than staying home to take care of your kid (which I know you’d said was a big reason for quitting). Since you still have a working spouse, and it doesn’t seem like you guys could get by without her income, despite working on other income streams, I don’t see how this can be in any way called retirement.
I know I’m mostly harping on semantics, and people can call themselves anything they want. I just find it interesting that whenever I meet a woman who leaves the workplace to stay home with the kids, even if they have done all the prior prep like you did (saving her income, making sure they could make it on one, building passive income to help out, etc.), no one looks at it as retirement – rather, it’s all about her becoming a stay-at-home mom.
I hope you don’t take this as an attack, because it’s really not. I just find this a very strange sociological question. My own family is living on one income. My husband is in the military, and due to us moving so much plus our two kids who need more stability than I could give them if I were working, too, I suppose I “retired” when the first one was born. Even though we save a lot and are in a good financial position (hence, why I started reading your blog for tips!), no one would ever call us “retired” until my husband does so. Then, our family will be “retired” – unless I decide to reenter the workforce at that point, although hopefully it will be because I miss it, not because we didn’t plan well enough!
The question is: Can YOU support your family as a retiree? Were you the one supporting the family mainly for 15 years?
The answers for Joe I believe is yes. If it is yes for you two, then you are also a retiree.
Sure, I think of it like retiring from a career.
When a basketball player get injured and quit. He retired, right? Firefighter, military, and other careers also offer the retirement option.
What do people do after they retire from these careers? They move on to do something else.
That’s the way I think about it. The main reason why I call it retirement is because I don’t plan to go back to my engineering career. I’m not going to reenter the work force unless I have no other choice.
People retire at different time. I don’t see why the family needs to be retired at the same time.
If I’m 65 and in this same situation, you probably wouldn’t think twice about the whole retirement thing.
I contribute to about 50% of our expense and I’m pretty happy with that. If Mrs. RB40 quit her job today, we would move to a cheaper location, we could move to a cheaper location and reduce our expense drastically.
Thanks for writing!
I think I’m going to have to respectfully disagree here. While it may be true that you COULD move somewhere else and live cheaper and be financially independent (which is really the core issue, not retirement), you aren’t choosing to do this because it doesn’t make sense for your life choices. We could easily do the same, but don’t want to do so. It still doesn’t make me retired.
I do agree that using myself as an example is fuzzy because while I was handily supporting myself for over ten years when I quit the workforce, the whole idea of being financially independent early hadn’t occurred to me. So, no, when I stopped working, I wasn’t supporting us. However, I have met women who WERE in this position, left to raise kids while their husband took over, and people the word “retirement” never applied to them.
Obviously, you are free to call yourself whatever, but I still would not call your departure from the workforce a true “retirement” as long as you have a working spouse you rely on.
I’m sure many people agree with you. There isn’t a good word for leaving a career.
I choose the title Retire by 40 when I started because it was more catchy than Quitting Work by 40.
Joe, I’m sure you have friends and acquaintances in the same field but who have worked for companies other than Intel. In your opinion, are the issues you mention specific to Intel, or are they likely to be present with any company over a certain size? And do you think the technology industry inherently has more pressure for employees than non-technology?
It’s different for everyone. There are issues with every company, but most people deal with it. I was ready to move on from engineering so I didn’t put a lot of effort into making it work. I think the pressure is high for engineers. Ever since the downturn, the teams shrunk and the work load grew.
Man, that is the dream job for ECE’s!
Good stuff!
Everything gets boring after a while. You were there for for 16 years yeah?
Yeap. It was great fun in the beginning, but I wasn’t able to evolve to fit the job expectation. I got tired of engineering.
Interesting that you lost interest in laptops. Seems that a lot of much-needed changes are finally happening (high-res screens, much thinner profiles). Although, like you said, most people do not notice nor care for these items (I’m hoping consumer preferences change).
I like the thinner profile, but I will wait for the price to come down. I’m much more ambivalent about performance increases. A cheap laptop works pretty well these days.
My brother is a mechanic engineer at SpaceX and definitely puts in a ton of hours. I think I would hate a job like that. He loves the work but hates the stress. I definitely wouldn’t make it as an engineer. Kudos to you for making it as long as you did!
Wow, SpaceX sounds like a great place to work. I can see why he would love it. The stress is unfortunate but the company has to make money for the executives and shareholders.
System Architect here (Computer System Engineer) and I totally here him on that, Lance. Most days I really enjoy what I do, but the long hours and stress level is very high in my world as well.
Like Keri mentioned above, I see the confusion on the use of the word “retired” as when I came across the blog I was thinking of that as meaning financial independence as well. Probably within the next decade I will “retire” from my line of work and take on a new career, though I’d like to eventually get to the point where I can really retire and fully replace my income with my investments…preferably before “normal” retirement age.
As you’ve mentiond in your other posts, staying out of debt will really help!
I’m glad you got out of a field that was no longer a fit for you, thanks for sharing!
When you are in school, you have all these grand ideas that you are going to make a difference. After so many years, you are a bit more realistic, especially just being the “cog in the wheel.” I think it’s healthy to change every so many years so you don’t end up a burn out just hanging in for the check. We all know those people and they are not fun. Most people don’t have the planning or forethought as you had, so that’s why I enjoy following your journey.
Thanks for the encouragement. It’s hard to make plan when things are going well. You think things will always be like that. Luckily we were pretty frugal and were able to save up some money over the years.
Intel’s culture is the WORST. They trap you, too, with the sabbatical offer every seven years, which is fairly brilliant for them, since they know that the average person is done with Intel after about five, so you get a bunch of disgruntled folks. I worked for Intel while in college, and realized that company wasn’t for me.
Intel is a huge company. Massive. Yes, there are bad teams, there are bad managers, and there are no doubt jobs where people feel trapped. As is true at every employer, large and small.
On balance, Intel is a darn good employer. Salary and benefits are well above average for the industry, and are very generous by the standards of nearly any other industry. There are opportunities for advancement, both within a role or by moving to another role. Trapped by sabbatical? Not so. I’ve not known anyone who feels trapped by sabbatical.
The majority of the people I worked with when I joined are still here, 15 years later. It sure doesn’t sound like they’re burning out or wanting to leave!
I can definitely respect RB40′s decision to move on. In fact, I quit Intel a couple years ago to join another company (I’ve since returned). But IMO anyone who makes a blanket statement like the above about Intel’s culture should do a bit of self-examination.
I can’t complain too much about Intel. I owe a lot of what I have to them. That’s why I said I’m not a good fit for the job anymore. I think it was me that changed a lot over the years.
“the average person is done with Intel after about five”
Voluntary turnover rate at Intel is currently 2%. That puts them at #2 among the top 100 companies to work for (at least among those that report #’s)
http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/best-companies/2012/turnover/
So in fact their turnover is among the very lowest out there among all major companies.
That could be partly due to the fact that if they stick it out seven years, they get a two month paid vacation. And they get that every seven years. It is a bad financial decision to leave.
I liked the sabbaticals.
It’s a great benefit and most people feels better after taking them.
No wonder you retired. I would have too. I find that many companies lose sight of what is important with employees and end up pushing them out the door. I also don’t think it is right to let your career take away everything else in your life. I know so many people whose lives have fallen apart (divorce, sickness, etc) because they sold their soul to their job. I think you are going to be much happier now Joe.
I am already much happier now. Thanks!
It’s tough for the companies too. They need to have the senior people be more productive. It’s not enough to just be good at the technical side. The budget can’t keep up with the complexity so the senior people had to contribute more.
I work at a big tech company as an engineer. I am going on 16 years as an individual contributor in the same job. My job is just fine and I’m happy with it. I work in a support role with regular 40 hour schedule which makes it easier since I don’t have the 60 hour workweeks and high stress to hit deadlines. BUT about 50% of my friends have disliked their jobs at the same company and quit.
I think your management and the actual nature of the job probably matter as much or more than the company.
I’ve had friends at the same company who hated their management, hated their group and/or hated their actual jobs. Most of them were very unhappy and eventually quit. One of them bounced between 4-5 companies in 4-5 years and was never happy till she finally landed at a company she settled with. Another friend had a couple crappy jobs and long stretches of unemployment and now wishes he hadn’t quit our company in the first place. One friend was originally in a really REALLY awful job in a certain division here and eventually got out of that and changed to another job internally and his job went from hell to just fine. He’s perfectly happy now at the same company in a very different role under different management. Another friend quit but for him I honestly think it was mostly that he was homesick for his home state and didn’t like living here. I have a couple other friends that have been with the company for 10-15 years and are plenty happy with their jobs. For a few years I had a couple crappy managers and I hated my job .. manager changed and job got better again. I’m very sure if I had a different job role or just a bad manager that I’d hate my job too. On the other hand I’m sure other people would hate my job and not get along as well with my management. Its all very different mixed results all under one company.
I agree about the manager and job. I changed job a few times, but it was always high stress because I was in the CPU division.
I know many people who are quite happy with their job. I think most senior people who are strictly individual contributors will eventually get squeeze out though. Quite a few older folks were forced to retire over the last few years.
I totally identify with this post…I’m a database engineer..been doing this for 9 years and I’m 34 years old going on 35. Having no kids and being a frugal person, I’ve been socking away savings. I too would like to semi-retire by 40 (ideally 38 years old). I have no wish to go into a leadership/management role yet I’m not sure if I can remain in a developer role for much longer. But my biggest problem is what other career can I go into?
I feel rather stuck right now. I guess I shouldn’t complain as I’m paid well yet I’m constantly brainstorming for what other new careers/small businesses I can start.
That’s great to hear. Even if you don’t want to leave yet, it’s a good to have that option. Perhaps you can take a year off to figure out what you want to do.
I used to think I shouldn’t complain because I was paid well too, but I was pretty miserable. It’s not worth the money to stay in a job that you hate for the paycheck unless you really need it. Good luck!
Lots of companies (at least in my field of software engineering) say there is a career path for engineers that don’t want to go into management. Yet the very fact that they trumpet this makes me think that that path doesn’t really exist, or has so few “openings” that it might as well not. Nevertheless, at least in software, there is always somewhere else to work where you can continue on as an individual contributor, or where it is easier to get a management/lead role, depending on which direction you wish to go (and aren’t getting traction on at your current employer)
Intel does have a path for senior level individual contributors. It seems most of those people doesn’t do much technical works though. It’s all about meeting, planning, and that kind of work at that level.
It’s more difficult in hardware engineering because it’s more specialized.
I remember during my children’s college orientation the Chancellor said that you should be prepared for multiple careers. Whether you are an engineer or accountant, you shouldn’t think it will stay the same for 40 years. I have had something like 7 careers. If you do not continue to learn and change over time, you become unpromotible and stagnate
Were all those careers successful? I know you did very well at many of them. Why did you have so many career change? I think it’s good to change career too. It keeps life more interesting.
Hi everyone. I’m J.P., and I’m the poor sod who asked Joe about his early retirement, so blame me for this big, bucket-load of depressing misery in a post. lol
To add to the misery, I’m an IT worker that has just turned Joe’s target-age, and have been out of work for over 2 years. I’ve only recently found out the reason for not getting any jobs was that my former employer was bad-mouthing me so I couldn’t get a job elsewhere. He shouldn’t bother, as I’ve been out of work for so long now, HR departments won’t hire ANYONE unemployed longer than 6 months anymore. I’ve burned through both my savings and my 401k just surviving, and am now living with family. Hence why I’m going back to school to start-over in another field.
Electronic engineering is a tough field nowadays, especially the sub-field of computer electronics. With China, India and now Indonesia coming online with semiconductor plants and their engineers fresh out of America’s best colleges, the industry is ripe for having electronic computer engineers being brought under pressure to perform more than ever before, or get out-sourced. US Bureau of Labor and Statistics shows a DOWNWARD trend in the industry for salaries….I know because Joe’s field was my first choice when going into engineering and did some researching for it. I flipped a coin between civil- and mechanical engineering, and chose M.E., as it’s the most versatile if I ever find a need to change jobs.
Joe, it sounds like pure burnout on your end, and I’m sure the engineering community is poorer without you around. That said, maybe after your fatherhood-sabbatical, you can find your second-wind and find something else that works for you. Maybe do like Limor “Ladyada” Fried did and start a company that supplies and educates electronics hobbyists. Or maybe beekeeping (*my* hobby). Or whatever gets you up out of bed in the morning.
Thanks again for a peek into the engineering lifestyle.
That’s true about outsourcing. A lot of jobs are going oversea. When I first started, Intel did all the design and validation in the US and Israel. Now even these core areas are starting to go oversea. Maybe I got out at the right time.
I think you might have! lol Not everyone can make the transition from worker to manager. I’ve worked over 4-5 people maximum before, and had no problems with it, so I’d probably be okay making the jump. Management usually has a bit more job protection built-in, as you said before, you’re a multiplier and should be able to oversee not just people in person, but also the outsourced individuals overseas via tele-presense doing what used to be YOUR work. BTW, did you get a letter of recommendation from your former boss? It might help you out when you make the transition back into the work force later on. At the very least, it will avoid problems like have occurred with me!
I didn’t get a recommendation letter from my old boss because I’m not planning to go back to engineering. Our relationship wasn’t that great anyway. I’m in contact with the previous boss before that and can get the recommendation letter from him if needed.
I’m not a senior engineer (about 6 years in), but I definitely can see what you are saying regarding individual contributers at the senior level having trouble staying in the field. The good news is, I really like leading technical things, making presentations, planning, etc., so I hope I’m still able to enjoy my career for years to come! Nearly all of my college engineer friends are still engineers, but then again, we are all only about 6 years in. I don’t think my job is super high stress, and my hours are typically very reasonable, but I do see that changing as people go up in the chain.
If you like the leadership role, then that’s great. You will have more options than people who just like the technical aspect of the job like me. When I was young, I thought the hours wasn’t that bad.
Hope you have a great career.
I’ve been following your posts for a few months. Congrats on the transition.
I am 20+ years into an engineering career and currently with a big tech company. I did the management thing for a few years but moved back to being a drone because it’s better fit with who I am and where I want to be. I am happy with my job and the Company. As far as retirement, the Mrs and I have been buying rentals for a couple of years and can nearly cover our expenses. Best case, we’d like to drop out of the rat race in 5 years and join the RB50 club.
It’s great that you are planning for the future. You like your job and company now, but who knows what can happen in 5 years. I did a little moving back and forth too. Good luck!
When I was in high school, I dreamed of taking up Computer Engineering and become the only lady engineer in our batch. For some reasons, I majored in ECE. Yes, it was really tough!
After graduation, I taught in a comunity college while finishing my graduate degree. Afterwards, I moved to a software development company. However, it was getting difficult for us to get a helper who will look after our children while my husband and I are at work. Likewise, working hours are getting longer. There were weekends that i have to report to work. One day, all my three kids approached me and they all complained (Yes, the kids, not my husband! LOL) because I am not spending enough time with them anymore. That was the last straw so I decided to leave the job and become a full-time mom. Though I know we were not ready for it, we needed to make a decision. I was glad I found a way how I can work online and earn enough while at home.
I’m glad to hear you were able to work it out too. The women engineers have it pretty tough when they have kids. The demand at the company stays the same, but you need to take care of the kids too.
I’ve been a software (writing low level I/O firmware) engineer for 16 years now, and am expecting to make that “senior” level in the next year or so. I’m a team lead, and love my job. It has it’s challenging days, but I can count on my fingers the companies in the world where I an do what I do. It gets my brain moving in ways that nothing else in my life can – maybe my perspective will change one day, but right now, I couldn’t see giving it up.
It’s great that your career is working out for you. I know quite a few senior level people that are very happy with their job.
Stories like this are why I’m saving as much as I can now. I’m not convinced that I want to stay in the corporate life forever and I’m confident that I could save enough by 35-40, like you did, that I wouldn’t need to stay in the corporate life.
I’m a software engineer and only a few years out of college. I would say that I’m an intermediate-level engineer. I’ve seen some of what you’re talking about though, with the expectations changing as engineers get more senior.
I still enjoy my job now, but I doubt I would want to continue to do it until full retirement age. I can’t imagine still working 40 years from now!
Some people are happy with the corporate life, but it’s not for everyone. It’s great that you are saving and investing now. It will give you more options no matter what happens in the future. Good luck!
I’m not sure if you will find humor in this but here it goes: my mom is an electrical engineer, my dad an engineer (don’t remember what kind), my brother majored in Industrial Engineering of Operations and Research and co-founded Mixbook.com, my uncle is in nuclear engineer (i think), and I’m a professional in the financial industry. I majored in finance. My mom told me not to become an engineer, and so I didn’t. My immediate family are all engineers, except for me. Could I be the blacksheep? Probably not, I find my field to be a lot more rewarding.
Hahaha, that is pretty funny. I don’t know. Being an engineer is not bad, it’s just not for everyone.
It’s great that you successful in your field.
It’s so interesting to learn more about your background, Joe! I was only in the corporate world for 4 years before making my leap, so while I don’t consider myself retired, I’m definitely out on my own. Who knows what’s in store from here on out.
I think you are doing great so far. You can always go back to work in a corporation if needed. Maybe move to the Bay Area? There are a lot more opportunities there if you want a job.
I’m an engineer, EE, but started and have stayed in software, and I’ve worked with everything from embedded devices to large scale communications and control. I don’t think I’m cut out to be a manager, though (I’ve only led small 3-5 person groups). My company does have the technical track, where you’re expected to continue your education (PhD), publish papers, and research, which is not a bad thing. However, I’ve been in the field for 19 years now, and I’m burned out. Since I don’t want to go the technical track, and I don’t want to be a manager, either, I’m at a dead end. And my company also moved 20 miles further away, adding to my commute time. So, I’ve cut my hours down to half time at work (I do have a great manager!), and am in the process of getting my real estate license. Some people think I’m crazy to switch careers at this point. But if you get to a point in your career where you realize that it’s not giving you value, you need to move on from there. You have to make the most of your life! I have met two former engineers who went into real estate and never looked back. Good luck in finding your next career when you are ready!
Amy
Amy, I know how you feel. It would be fine for me to keep doing the same job and getting minimal raises, but that’s not enough for the company. They always demand more and I got burned out.
I think it’s good to try something else. Some people love engineering, but I saw many people who are just hanging on for the paycheck too.
Life is short so we need to enjoy it. Working is such a big part of life that it’s not worth staying in a job that you don’t like.
Good luck to you too. I’m sure the real estate market will turn around at some point.
I’m an engineer by education and my 2 degrees, but never more than that. I got out before I even got in to the field for real. If I had gone for it, I could’ve seen a career ending up much like yours, Joe. Many of my friends work for consultants and work nights, weekends, or whatever it takes. I can just see the trend of how their lives will become more stressful and less fulfilling, even as they move up management. I just have no desire to do that.
Thanks for sharing!
Wow, that’s a lot of pain (2 degrees) to go through, but a few of my college friends did that too.
Yeah, it’s not that bad to work a lot of hours when you’re young. It’s no fun when you have a family though.
Looking forward to seeing you next week.
Interesting insight, thanks for sharing! I too am an engineer and have undergone a similar transformation as I’ve progressed throughout my career. I used to enjoy being in the manufacturing plant, troubleshooting complex problems, getting that high at the end of the shift that we banged something out or whatever. A few jobs later I’m running projects that take 3-4 years to totally complete, my team is all over the world so all the interactions are over the phone and the responsibilities and expectations are increased. I’ve kinda grown into my current role but I’m mid-30s. I don’t know what I’ll be doing in my 40s and 50s but I may well find myself feeling the same way you did!
It sounds like you are doing pretty well in your leadership role. That’s great to hear and I know many people who like being a manager. I’m a much better individual contributor and I’m just not comfortable with leadership. Anyway, life goes on.
I know you are loving the time you are spending at home raising the toddler, but any thought to getting an intro job for 2-3 days a week? To alleviate some of the financial pressure
I’m not planning to get a job at this time. If our cash fund dip below $25,000, then I might consider taking up a part time job. Our finance is holding steady so I don’t think I’ll need to do that anytime soon. When he goes off to preschool, I’ll definitely put more effort into self employment or perhaps a part time job.
My husband is going to quit his engineering job in a year. My salary will cover our expenses plus an additional 4K, even with the new baby expenses. We’ve discovered that he’s a scanner… he likes to do new things all the time, so he’s thinking he wants to do contract work. We’re talking about this more on our Sept 3rd post.
I’ll mark the date on my calender and make sure to drop by.
Good luck!
Just a note that I got fired from my engineering job over 30 years ago for taking too much vacation. At first it was traumatic, but it turned out to be the best thing that ever happened to me.
I have not had a regular job since then. I semi-retired when my net worth was minus $30,000 (due to student loans) and have been semi-retired ever since, working four hours a day or so on things I like working on.
Relating to this is one of my favorite quotes from one of my favorite bloggers:
“Getting a job and trading your time for money may seem like a good idea. There’s only one problem with it. It’s stupid! It’s the stupidest way you can possibly generate income! This is truly income for dummies. Why is getting a job so dumb? Because you only get
paid when you’re working.”
— Steve Pavlina, author of “Personal Development for Smart People”
In short, if anyone offered me $10 million to go work as an engineer (or any other corporate job) for one year, I wouldn’t consider it even for a nanosecond.
Ernie J. Zelinski
International Best-Selling Author, Innovator, and Prosperity Life Coach
Author of the Bestseller “How to Retire Happy, Wild, and Free”
(Over 165,000 copies sold and published in 9 languages)
and the International Bestseller “The Joy of Not Working’
(Over 250,000 copies sold and published in 17 languages)
Thanks for your input. Most engineers are very resourceful and I’m sure they can function even without an engineering job. Wow, I would consider $10 million for one year.
I’ll only work on what I want to from now on and will never go back to working for a corporation.
Hopefully, my library will have your books.
If you give me your address, either here, or e-mail it to success101coach (at) yahoo (dot) com, I can send you a complimentary autographed copy of “How to Retire Happy, Wild, and Free.”
Hopefully you will like it and will post a great review of it both on Amazon.com and here on your blog.
Thanks.
I think you’ve invested too many years in education and professional experience to simply quit the workforce.
Every company is run differently and has different views on work/life balance. Therefore, just because Intel did you wrong does not mean you should give the notion of working for Corporate America the middle finger.
Have you considered going into programming? Business analysis?
I’m pretty happy with what my education and working life gave me. I’ll try self employment for a while and if I really have to, I would consider going back to work for a small company. Most people can tolerate corporate America, but it really isn’t for me.
I would just add that I totally agree with you here. It is totally irrelevant how much time, money, and education one has invested in the past. If one doesn’t like one’s job, one should find a way to leave.
Seth Godin covers this very well in his book “The Dip: A Little Book That Teaches You When to Quit (and When to Stick)”
@Ernie – sure, no point in working at a place that causes you both mental and physical pain. However, don’t you think it would be prudent to find another job before quitting, especially in this very difficult, ultra-competitive job market?
Not at all. One of my favorite blog posts ever is by one of my favorite bloggers.
The blog post is titled “Top-10 Reasons You Should Never Get a Job” and it is by Steve Pavlina, author of “Personal Development for Smart People”
http://www.stevepavlina.com/blog/2006/07/10-reasons-you-should-never-get-a-job/
I particularly like this part by Steve:
“Getting a job and trading your time for money may seem like a good idea. There’s only one problem with it. It’s stupid! It’s the stupidest way you can possibly generate income! This is truly income for dummies.
“Why is getting a job so dumb? Because you only get paid when you’re working. Don’t you see a problem with that, or have you been so thoroughly brainwashed into thinking it’s reasonable and intelligent to only earn income when you’re working? Have you never considered that it might be better to be paid even when you’re not working? Who taught you that you could only earn income while working? Some other brainwashed employee perhaps?”
Just a further note that in 1991 when there was a recession happening and shortly after I wrote and self-published my international bestseller “The Joy of Not Working”, I received this letter from a reader:
Dear Ernie:
I have just finished reading your book “The Joy of Not Working.” Your inspirational words have changed the way I now view my life. I always felt that working harder would eliminate my problems, but all it ever did was complicate my life and cause more problems. You have given me the courage to quit my job. I used to be a tax consultant. Now I’m a human being again.
That’s right. I marched in this morning and told them I quit because my wife, my kids, and my health (both mental and physical) were more important. I’ve been seeking security through working more, but that’s not the answer. There are so many things I’ve wanted to do but felt I couldn’t. I love reading, and I’ve always felt writing would be a natural extension of my personality. If you have the time, I’d appreciate learning how you got started writing. I also failed first-year university English.
Thank You,
Les
Incidentally, Les wrote to me a few years later and he did okay.
I think this happens to a lot of engineers. They end up in management positions over time. My husband got promoted out of his technical job without even being interested or consulted. Although it was much better than being laid off and he’s good at it, I think most people don’t realize staying in a technical role forever is not always possible, especially once you salary gets in the 6 figure range.
Good article. The stuff I hate most about my job is the non technical stuff. Too.
@FGA – Interesting, yet odd. I would think the business would initially ask your husband if he’d be interested in the managerial role. Many folks in IT/Engineering are quite content to keep their existing non-managerial roles.
Sorry to hear that. I should have quit 5-6 years ago. Now I don’t even like the technical part of the job. Oh well, life goes on.
“Management” as conceived by the Harvard Business School is a massively overrated. Obviously management is required at some level, but the expected level is more to support a Wall st expectation of commoditization of everything. Engineering should have a big dose of creativity, which is something which is inherently chaotic and unmanageable.
I am a consulting engineer specializing in structural glass for buildings, and a started my own practice two years ago. I charge only a little less than big management heavy firms, but have no management overhead. Clients, including now two Fortune 500 companies, love it because they can buy the creativity from my office which has been strangled by their in house MBA’s.
I am currently 36 and may be able to retire retire at 40, but I would never do so because I like engineering too much.
Thanks for sharing your story. I think the corporate culture really killed off many good engineers. That’s too bad.
@Michael – Well done, sir. You excised Corporate America bureaucracy from the equation.
My goals and circumstance are very similar to yours. Been in software engineering field for 12 years and looking forward to financial freedom. Quit the inflated lifestyle 2 years ago. Never felt better. Looking forward to spending more time with the family. I had planned on 44, but reading your blog has got me thinking more aggressively.
My son, like yourself and CNBC’s Jim Cramer studied engineering. Unlike yourself, my son Carl and Jim both quit to work in Finance. When I asked my son why he switched he said, “I realized I would have to be an engineer.” I don’t know if this helps, but the engineering curriculum and it’s approach to critical thinking has certainly aided in his transition from Engineering to Finance.
Engineering was fun in the beginning, but I got burned out. It happens to a lot of people. Some people still love it after 20 years and that’s good for them also.
Its funny because I just graduated in December and I would love to do the exact opposite of you. The faster I get into management the better! I think of myself as a strong intellectual, but technical positions don’t seem to be for me. When I look at job postings for ECE they just all look boring. I have strong speaking skills and would be more than happy if my whole day were to be filled with meetings, presentations, etc. Unfortunately for me it just doesn’t seem to be possible to have that kind of job immediately, so I’ll end up drudging through my job until I can get there.
I think you can get into the management position pretty quick if you like that. Find a good mentor and you’ll get a lot of help.
You can also see if you can get into an assistance position for one of the senior manager. You can help make presentation, set up meetings, and those kind of work. That’s a good way to get out of the technical side. Good luck!
Thanks for the advice, I’ll see what I can find. I was also thinking about getting an MBA a little down the road, but I’ve heard the value of those is decreasing. And of course going back to school is always harder than going the first time.
“I lost interest in the job/career”
I can strongly relate to this one. I’ve been in Civil Engineering for 4.5 years and am in the middle of a career change. I firmly believe Engineering (or any career for that matter) is something you have to have a passion for, and frankly I never had it. When I first started, my Engineering job was only intended to be a starting point so I could figure out what I really want to do (And I have figured it out at this point). I found firsthand that if you don’t have the passion you’ll eventually wind up hating it and do mediocre work at best (I’m not saying you’ve done mediocre work; this just happens to be how my story unfolded). This leaves an unsatisfied, unfulfilled worker and a company with less profit-in other words it sucks for everyone involved. Like you said it has the potential to be a rewarding career, but it’s definitely not for everyone. Thanks for sharing your story; I’m glad I’m not the only one who’s had enough Engineering!
Thanks for your comment. I liked it at first, but all the corporate BS that came with it just killed it for me.
Anyway, people change career a few times these days. We need to find something that we enjoy and then the money will come. Good luck!
FutureAirborneRanger,
Your comment really hit home for me because I quit engineering after I got my EE degree from Cal Poly Pomona. I couldn’t stand it.
I got a good GPA (3.4) upon graduation but I seriously hated it.
But I’ve always wondered how things would have went had I stayed and got a job like everyone else. I eventually went into architecture, then marketing, then Dietetics & Nutrition.
But I think you’re right though, I probably would’ve produced mediocre results at best. And like RetireBy40 is saying, I probably would’ve spent all my money trying to make myself happier.
If you get a chance, I want to hear more about your thoughts on this because I think about this scenario so often and am always wondering “What if I became an engineer?” –> Ray (at) howtoclearyouracne (dot) com.
I worked for Intel for 5 years, worst job I have ever had.
I left my previous employer (listed on Fortune 100 Best Companies to Work For too no less) partly because I tired of the corporate drama… makes you wonder what it is like for companies not on the Fortune list.
Engineering is team endeavor and there’s always going to be at the very least a little corporate drama wherever you go.
While my current gig is okay it has me thinking about what to do in the long term. I’ve been doing this for fifteen years and I feel it’s sort of time for a change… a long sabbatical sounds about right and I don’t know if I want to go back to engineering after that. So I how some ex engineers feel
Intel is also one of the best companies to work for. It was good when I was young, but it’s not a good fit when I got older.
Good luck finding a long term solution. A sabbatical would be great to get your head straight. Cheers.
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